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Topics - rancax

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Hi everyone, I've been knocking my head for the last couple of days and need a help!
 So, i have textured a shield in painter and input maps in mamroset 3.02 ( Wes helped me a lot in post regarding marmoset help a few days ago ) and it turned 99.9% same as in painter, here's the shot from marmoset >

it's a PBR SPEC/GLOSS workflow/template in painter! but marmoset is not the problem....
So I've exported maps as regular > diffuse,spec.,gloss,normal,height,ao curvature
But when I imported maps in appropriate slots in vraymat. I'm getting this > 

This is vraymat. setup in max >
Diffuse and spec. are sRGB
Glossiness - linear
Normal - linear
and VrayHDR is from substance painter > hdr is > panorama ( that what is called ) so that everything is matched as it was in painter and marmoset

but: when I invert glossiness in max I get more realistic results toward substance painter, although it is not same...

BUT  when i crank up IOR value up to 10 in vraymat. I'm gettin' these results >

So my first question is > is this what I'm getting is the result from start, meaning not starting in pbr metalness workflow, and then selecting vray export preset ( I'm using udim because of texture sets but nevertheless it's same ) since metalness workflow is required to get those IOR maps??? Isn't dcc packages such as maya and max etc, designed to work with spec.gloss? meaning these maps are driving renderer and calculations to show how much is something glossy, or reflective? If converting from metalness to spec.workflow that seems logical to use IOR maps but as it stated in Substance painter's template just simple PBR spec.template/workflow...

Second part : AND then I've come across this:
1) https://resources.squid.io/stemcell/materials-texturing-stemcell/stemcell-texturing-guide/

2) https://resources.squid.io/materials-texturing/
and many other resources across net, but something really got my attention :

they are saying about different values as well as ALlegorithmic's PBR Comprehensive guides but in squid the are saying:

Specular Workflow

There are basically two types of materials. Dielectrics (water, glass, mud, rock, wood, etc.) and Metals (iron, aluminum, gold, etc.).

1) For most materials, you can keep your reflective IOR values, for each type of material, within a very small range.
a) Dielectrics : 1.3 – 3.0 (water – lacquer)
b) Metals : 10 – 30 (iron – chrome)

2) Reflection(Specular map) values are usually never higher than RGB 240, and never lower than RGB 40. The value should also never be darker than your diffuse value.

3) Glossiness values should almost never drop below 0.5 value or RGB 128. If an object still seems too glossy at 0.5 or RGB 128, you need to lower the reflection value or have an incorrect IOR value.

4) Metal materials should always have a very dark diffuse value usually between RGB 5 – 40. If you are creating a colored metal material that requires color (i.e. gold or copper), then the RGB color should be in the reflectivity (_Specular) texture map.

and for the metalness:
There are basically two types of materials. Dielectrics (water, glass, mud, rock, wood, etc.) and Metals (iron, aluminum, gold, etc.).

1) Metallic maps values are between near pure white for metals and near pure black for dielectrics (no color ever). However, because some materials can push the boundaries of physics in unexpected directions, you may see the need to use some creative adjustments to the grey values. General rules to follow:

a) Dielectrics – RGB 5 – 100 or Grey value 2-39%
b) Metals – RGB 190 – 250 or Grey value 75-98%
c) No Color in the Metallic Map

2) IOR is simulated by the material BRDF and relies on the metallic map to assign its overall reflectivity value. Dark grayscale values (dielectrics) get lower simulated IOR values while bright grayscale get higher simulated IOR values.

3) Roughness maps are essentially the inverse of glossiness maps in how they are read. Black is smooth or shiny, while white is rough or flat. Roughness values should almost never exceed 0.5 value or RGB 128. If an object still seems too glossy at 0.5 or RGB 128, check the Metallic and BaseColor maps.

4) BaseColor has effects reflectivity depending on your Metallic value. It represents the Diffuse and Specular maps combined for the Metallic workflow.

So regarding this but following Diff/spec. workflow as the stated "As a general practice keep Diffuse and Specular map values between 5 and 230. Going above this range can cause bright values to blow out in different renderers. Any values lower than this range can clamp to black which gives no color contribution."" I went and did this

1)
where I marked levels that's is were I entered values as they said 5 and 230

2) For spec i did same, put as the say min 40 max 230
3) For glossiness put min 128
4) Just for experiment sake i desaturated specular map and inverted it and put it in IOR map slot in vraymat.

and this is the result form vray, just pay attention to upper and lower frame of the shiled ( because I didn't put rest of textures, just wanted to see for test purposes how it will end up ) >


close but > this is from marmoset >

and this is form vray >

and finaly 3 questions :

1) Is the lack of IOR maps ( converted from metalness workflow ) causing inconsistent results in vray?

2) Did all values regarding spec/metalness workflow in substance painter meaning specular, glossines values that i maybe during texture process did wrong?
because allegorithmic says bunch of values diffuse, base color, specular etc. have ranges from>to and how in the hell we set them??? I mean where and how do I set correct values for specular, glossines or base color and roughness?
Do I set them inside painter while working like for diffuse and spec. >
and for the rest of maps, specular or when I work with metalness workflow????
maybe it's sounds really ridiculous but when i red PBR guides I just do not know what to do...

3) If I do not set correct values described in question nubmer 2, is the right way to edit them as in stemcell guide, and edit values in photoshop in that way?

4) And can you point to some tuts concerning all these values described as well as in Allegorithmic's guide or anything taht will clear up all of this described?

So that is all, I know it's little bit much but really I can't find these things explained, and I think it's essence for good workflow, less is more... so if anyone can help much obliged!

Thanks in advance :)

2
Hi everyone, i have couple q and I don't know if to be treated as a problem!
so here it goes :

1) I'm using standard pbr specular workflow for some ground tiling texture, with standard diffuse, specular, glossiness, height and normal channels > as seen i pic. and when I export my textures ( pbr spec/gloss export preset ) and export them as EXR and import textures in marmoset 3.02 i have some discrepancies! so this is what is bothering me :

a) since is exr format, albedo ( diffuse ) when i select sRGB on it comes out dark >
but when i untick sRGb, when it's off > results are the same as is in substance painter!
 

b) when i use png ( 16 bit ) format when i tick sRGB on everything is fine and is showing me results as if were exr used without sRGB ticked on!

c) when i use glossiness map in glossiness slot ( map is in exr format )  everything is fine ( i suppose ) but it showing red in glossines slot and it's red when i enlarge ( preview map ) with zoom... but i get same results when map is png 16 bit format, only difference is that is not showing red
is that an issue or not??? since I'm getting same results... ???

d) and finally apparently some are saying for example sRGB should be on in albedo but when using exr it's not???
what space ( linear or rgb ) and channels should be used? I guess settings are different for different file formats?
so my question is this if I'm using EXR and non exr file formats what should be used?
EXR :
1) Albedo sRGB on or off ?
2) Gloss map > what channel and sRGB on or off ?
3) Reflectivity > what channel and sRGB on or off?
4) wheter I'm using metalness or spec. workflow should be REFLECTION SET TO GGX in both scenarios or not?
5) Occlusion map > what channel and sRGB on or off?
6) Cavity map ( which is under occlusion slot ) > what channel and sRGB on or off?

AND ARE THESE SETTINGS DIFFERENT FROM OTHER FILE FORMATS OR NOT? Any help would be nice because nowhere could'n find thece speceific thing, because in 90% all i can find is answer yes, this is it and not...only general thing, not explaining the essence!

and one more thing, i saw all these details, little more pronounced, maybe little bit more reflective in substance painter than in marmoset... any hel. opinion, suggestion?

and I have couple of Q regarding vray export template but i don't know if here is the right forum section... ?

thnks in advance :)

3
Hi everybody,  I have a couple of questions that I think everybody interest! From begginer to advanced level...
so first of all :

1) NORMAL MAP QUESTION:
I have read and researched  all over the internet, tutorials but someone say you gotta do that, other completely different, and therefore I really don't know what to do... so can we sort it out once it for all...
I'm been using 3ds max for my workflow but when it comes to normal maps there are headache about uv split, smooth groups, hard edges, and a couple more...
I have been watching these tut : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3r7Xmhmlk&list=PLB0wXHrWAmCx994Cb7iRFSmupYHFw5DTx&index=21 and your tutor put crate model on one smoothing group and showed us a workflow for UE and UNITY, but maybe i want to use substance painter/designer to get maps and have production rendering or animation inside max.

So regarding that in mind can you please clarify for all of us particularly for 3ds max :

1) When i prepare model in 3ds max for baking in SUBSTANCE PAINTER DO I HAVE TO SPLIT UV's ON EVERY EDGE WHERE I WANT TO HAVE HARD EDGE? AND do i have to put every UV ISLAND ( which coresponds with appropriate polygon on model ) on DFFERENT SMOOTHING GROUP > 1,2,3,4 AND SO ON... ?????

2) IF WE MUST DO THIS THEN IF WE HAVE SOME COMPLEX GEOMETRY EVENTUALLY  IN OUR 0-1 UV SPACE EVERYTHING WILL BE CROWDED, AND ALL PARTS WILL NOT HAVE SAME TEXEL DENSITY ( how you describe in another tutorial ) !!!!
SO IF YOU CAN POINT OR ONE OF YOUR TUTORS CAN RECORD SOLUTION HOW WOULD YOU SET UP LIKE HE SET UP THAT CRATE IN ALLEGORITHMIC's TUTORIAL WHEN HE PUT ONE SIDE ON SINGLE SMOOTH GROUP!
HOW TO SET UP LIKE THAT IN 3DS MAX IN ORDER TO SPARE UV SPACE AND TO HAVE IT SHADED CORRECTLY WHEN WE IMPORT IN MAX AND RENDER!?!?!

3) ANOTHER SOLUTION WOULD BE THIS > IF WE HAVE TO HAVE SMOOTHING GROUPS AND UV SPLITS, THEN I WOLUD PUT MY COMPLEX MODEL AND IT'S UV's IN DIFFERENT UV TILES ( which introduces us with multi uv tile workflow) IMPORT IN SUBSTANCE PAINTER AND BAKE! I SAW THAT YOU INTRODUCED WITH 2.1 VERSION UDIM WORKFLOW WHICH BASICALLY MULTI UV TILE WORKFLOW AS I UNDERSTOOD IT. SO WILL SUBSTANCE PAINTER BE ABLE TO BAKE ALL OF MAPS ON MULTI UV TILES??? I MEAN NORMAL, AO, CAVITY etc. ON GEOMETRY WHICH LAYS ON 0-1 UV SPACE, AND THEN DO SAME FOR REST OF UV TILES DEPENDS HOW MUCH WE HAVE THEM?!?!?
I know that max, and maya s far as I know cant bake textures outside of 0-1 uv space so you see imortance of this question?

4) i SAW YOUR TUTOR SET UP TWO MATERIALS AND BASICALLY GOT TWO TEXTURE SETS FOR CRATE TOP AND BOTTOM! AND THEY OVERLAP BUT SUBSTANCE PAINTER IS FILTERING THEM BASED ON MAT. SETUP > AND THAT IS OKAY, BUT IF I IMPORT THAT CRATE IN MAX I WOULD HAVE UV OVERLAP I UV EDITOR AND IT IS A MESS > SO I WOULD MOVE PRECISELY TOP OR BOTTOM FROM 0-1 TO 1-0 UV SPACE, AND THEN REST OF TEXTURE FOR THAT UV TEXTURE SET, OFFSET THEM AND BASICALLY SORT THAT PROBLEM..
SO IS THIS SOLUTION OR NOT?

5) I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH NORMAL MAP BAKED FROM MAX IMORTED INTO SUBSTANCE PAINTER AND YOU SAID THAT YOU CURRENTLY DO NOT SUPPORT 3DS MAX's TANGET BASIS SPACE.
SO MY QUESTION IS IF I BAKE NORMAL MAP IN SP/SD WOULD IT RENDER AND SHADE CORRECTLY OR IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED THIS : http://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX/2016/ENU//?guid=GUID-86205F0D-6143-432A-B0D4-5CCC4DB2699F > NORMAL BUMP MODE ( you can see this on this link ) OR HOW TO SET IT UP CORRECTLY IN ORDER TO USE SP/SD IN PRODUCTION , ANIMATION OR WHAT EVER...

6) AND BIG NO NO FROM YOUR SIDE IS THAT YOU DID NOT EXPLAINED HOW TO SET UP CAGE SINCE YOU HAVE THAT OPTION IN SP. I MEAN IF YOU APPLY DIFFERENT MAT. AND SUBSTANCE PAINTER USE NAMING CONVENCTION TO BAKE DIFFERENT PARTS OF GEOMETRY, SO NOT TO OVER LAP, THEN HOW TO SET UP CAGE? DO I HAVE TO HAVE TWO CAGES BASED ON SAME NAMING CONVENCTION IN ONE FILE FORMAT ( OBJ.) OR WHAT????

7) AND AT LAST ONE CRITIC FROM ME - YOU SHOULD CONSIDER THAT MANY PEOPLE USES 3DS MAX IN THEIR PRODUCTION OR WORKFLOW AND ALL I SAW WAS TUTS RELATED TO MAYA... SO THAT IS NOT FAIR. OR OTHER PROGRAMS, BLENDER, MODO etc... SO YOU SHOULD REALLY CONSIDER PAYING ATTENTION TO OTHER MODELING PACKAGES BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BUYING YOUR PRODUCT AND GIVING HARD EARNED MONEY FOR THAT, AND THEREFORE EXPECTING A SUPPORT AND EXPLANATION RELATED TO OTHER PROGRAMS. FAVORISING ONE MODEILNG PACKAGE IS NOT PROFESSIONAL.

I KNOW THAT SP/SD IS NOT PRIMARILY AIMING ON MODELING PACKAGES , MORE TOWARDS GAMING ENGINES BUT, SINCE PEOPLE HAVE ABILITY TO USE IT OTHER THAN GAMING ENGINES I THINK THAT THIS SAID WOULD BE FAIR.
JUST TO BE CLEAR I DONT MEAN NOTHING WRONG SP/SD ARE AMAZING PROGRAMS AND I USE THEM BUT WITH LITTLE MORE EXPLANATION WITH THIS Technicalities WOULD BE PERFECT.
SO IF SOMEONE FROM ALLEGORITHMIC CAN HELP ME WITH THESE QUESTIONS OR POINT TO EXACT DIRECTION I WOULD APPRECIATE IT MEGA MUCH!
 ALL THE BEST WISHES AND KEEP UP BUILDING THIS GREAT PROGRAM,
THNKS IN ADVANCE
CHEERS :)

4
Substance PainterSubstance Painter - Discussions - MEGA PROBLEM!
 on: May 08, 2016, 06:22:21 pm 
I have a big problem. so if anyone knows anything about this or any help would be excellent, or if someone else is having same issue would be great too, so we can figure out this thing happening!

After I set project, set mesh, maps etc, I start to set my brush settings, as well as materials... start to paint, and if I have multiple objects i paint them with different materials and color, but > when I save as > my project (.spp), and then quit program > start it again all my brushes and  materials are back to default! and I have to select materials over again and tweak brushes over again!!!!

I really dont understand what is going on but its very annoying and terrible!
extra info > I'm on win 10 x64, i7 5820k, r9 380x, 32 gb ddr4 if that's helpful...

any info or solution would be much appreciated

5
I started following a tutorial, and when I set my brush size, flow and spacing, as well as base color and roughness slider in material rollout, and save as project, next time wnen  I open that saved project my changes in brush and material settings are on default! Substance Painter did not saved them,,,

Can anyone help? It's very annoying thing that really is making big problems in work...
currently I'm on 2.0.5 ver.
hardware is i7 5820k, r9 380x, 32bg ddr4, samsung evo 850 ssd

thanks in advance

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