Author Topic: Matching Render in Modo as well as in Sub Painter. "How-to" - First Try = FAIL  (Read 3952 times)

Hello.

I'm experiencing some issue displaying the same Rendering as SB Painter in Modo. I'm looked into some forum thread like those from Wes McDermott here and some on modology.fr Modo French User Forum, but didn't found how figured out the same render in both software. So here i'm trying to find a workaround to this challenge. I'm probaly doing it in a wrong way but that is a good way to get involved with tools. So feel free to comment ^^
 
Setup both Software to Match the same result of Sub Painter viewport and Modo Render.
I'm runing Modo 901 SP3 with the last 2.1 Subtance Plugin. My scene properties have been set to Linear color mode for every settings (Select the Main Scene Layer): Default 8-bit ColorSpace / Default 16-bit ColorSpace / Default Float ColorSpace ---> All to "Linear" mode


Also I've disable the "Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects" in Preference ---> Display ---> OpenGL ---> Performance.


Goal. Having no problem with the CIO (Color Input-Output Management) that still don't work well between Viewport and Render when mixing Linear colorspace files (like all the Grey maps like Spec/Rough/Metalic) and sRGB Colorspace files (like DiffuseColor/SpecColor).
I've made that in order to load Roughness and Diffuse map directly as linear setup. and see them properly in terms of Colorspace in the Modo 3D Viewport as well as the one in SubPainter when you activate the color key to see the different maps.

Here are the result showing in both application viewport.

(For convenience and in order to didn't affect my color check. I've change the Background Color in Substance Painter to the same as in Modo on both color as it works as a gradient to RGB 0.36 0.4 0.45. PS: That's not a Copy / Paste screenshot of the Modo viewport pasted over SPainter :-D )





So Diffuse / SpecAmount(Metalic) and Roughness looks OK. But Normal are good too.
But when i'm looking to the Preview render i got a darker render (Talking about the FinalColorRender), even if i turn it to from sRGB to Linear mode. (It should be set as Linear mode, right ?)
The DiffuseColor / Roughness pass are ok tooked on side. but the Environment / Lighting  looks a lot darker. How I can be sure to get the same result in both Modo and Sub Painter ?


Sub Painter on Left / Preview Render in Modo on Right




Conclusion and Workaround:

In order to fix that a bit, I've turned the Preview Render from Linear to sRGB Colorspace in order to get back the correct Gamma value for the Environement Background image and Lighting that come through. And also setup a Gamma value of 1/2.2 (=0.4546) to all my input texture maps.

Now i'm close to the twice software, but there is still issue on the Metalic pass.




Quote
Usually i was working on a different ColorSpace setup:

"Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects" enable.

Default 8-bit ColorSpace / Default 16-bit ColorSpace to sRGB

Default Float ColorSpace to Linear.

Using this setup was painful because in the viewport even if the Diffuse map was OK , the Roughness was displayed wrong in term of Colorspace.




HI,

For the color space, I use the Nuke-default which sets 8 and 16bit to sRGB, float to linear and the view color space to sRGB. Can you send me the substance and mesh? I can take a look. The default settings should be working. Its sounding like there is an issue with some of the colorspace settings.

Cheers,
Wes
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Ok Wes.

so i've turned back my settings to usual.

Scene Properties back to sRGB for Default 8 bit and 16 bit Colorspace. And left Linear mode for Default Float Colorspace.
Enable the "Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects" in my Preference.
Then switch back the Gamma value back to 1.0 for every map.

I'm using the metal_006.sbsar you've gave to our community in your main post  (as well as in my first exemple).

So at this 2nd try i got this just using the Normal / Diffuse and Roughness.

I also got some issue also in the viewport. (Just in Texture mode --> Not the Overbugy Advanced mode)
EDIT: It's due to the "Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects". When it's disable it works. when it's enable it bugs... That's why i didn't like much that scene setup.



When i want to use the Specular Color (through the Specular map from SbPainter) and Specular amount (through the Metalic map from SbPainter) it didn't match.

I'm ok for giving you the Lxo files for the 2 scenes setup and the FBX used in SbPainter but as it's over NDA i can just send it to you by email, and not the complete model. What is the email adress for your support ?

If you can't look at the image file posted here you can find them over my Blog: http://smoluck.com
Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 02:00:18 am

Ok Wes.

so i've turned back my settings to usual.

Scene Properties back to sRGB for Default 8 bit and 16 bit Colorspace. And left Linear mode for Default Float Colorspace.
Enable the "Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects" in my Preference.
Then switch back the Gamma value back to 1.0 for every map.

I'm using the metal_006.sbsar you've gave to our community in your main post  (as well as in my first exemple).

So at this 2nd try i got this just using the Normal / Diffuse and Roughness.

I also got some issue also in the viewport. (Just in Texture mode --> Not the Overbugy Advanced mode)
EDIT: It's due to the "Perform Color Correction on OpenGL Objects". When it's disable it works. when it's enable it bugs... That's why i didn't like much that scene setup.



When i want to use the Specular Color (through the Specular map from SbPainter) and Specular amount (through the Metalic map from SbPainter) it didn't match.

I'm ok for giving you the Lxo files for the 2 scenes setup and the FBX used in SbPainter but as it's over NDA i can just send it to you by email, and not the complete model. What is the email adress for your support ?

If you can't look at the image file posted here you can find them over my Blog: http://smoluck.com

Can you send me the substance painter .spp file and the model file? I will take a look from there. You can send it to wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com.

Cheers,
Wes
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

The Zip file archive with .spp and .fbx is currently in upload on my Onedrive cloud. so please stay tune.

I've find an issue on FBX loading in Substance Painter.

One of my friend (Nem) have confirmed that if the FBX comes from Modo, the Smoothing Groups are not supported by SubPainter, as opposed to FBX that comes from 3dsmax or Maya. Can you confirm that ?

---

When i’m preparing my mesh in Modo i usually create a vert_normal (map) with the Vertex Normal Toolkit 2.71 from Farfarer, that you might already known if you’re using script and tools shared by the Modo community.

It let you create kind of smoothing group by making Edge hard or soft through their normals weighting.

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=83&t=77919&show=vertex%2cnormal

But when i’m loading my LXO file or FBX file (even if i select option to export also my smoothing), i got my vert normal all averaged inside Painter. (Even if i use the "Compute Tangent Space per Fragment", what this option is supposed to do.

Have a look there if i load the FBX in the ADSK FBX viewer it loads correctly.



The only way i can load it correctly in substance is a brutal trick. Selecting all my Hard Edge and then Split them to force the shading to interpret their normal correctly.

But that's not really an optimized solution.

The Zip file archive with .spp and .fbx is currently in upload on my Onedrive cloud. so please stay tune.

I've find an issue on FBX loading in Substance Painter.

One of my friend (Nem) have confirmed that if the FBX comes from Modo, the Smoothing Groups are not supported by SubPainter, as opposed to FBX that comes from 3dsmax or Maya. Can you confirm that ?

---

When i’m preparing my mesh in Modo i usually create a vert_normal (map) with the Vertex Normal Toolkit 2.71 from Farfarer, that you might already known if you’re using script and tools shared by the Modo community.

It let you create kind of smoothing group by making Edge hard or soft through their normals weighting.

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=83&t=77919&show=vertex%2cnormal

But when i’m loading my LXO file or FBX file (even if i select option to export also my smoothing), i got my vert normal all averaged inside Painter. (Even if i use the "Compute Tangent Space per Fragment", what this option is supposed to do.

Have a look there if i load the FBX in the ADSK FBX viewer it loads correctly.



The only way i can load it correctly in substance is a brutal trick. Selecting all my Hard Edge and then Split them to force the shading to interpret their normal correctly.

But that's not really an optimized solution.

Hi,

I'm not having any issues with smoothing groups importing into Painter from Modo. I haven't tired the Normal Toolkit.I set a Vertex Normal Map using Vertex Map > Set Vertex Normal. To create the splits, I use the Edge>Split Vertex Normal command. When I export the FBX, this imports into Painter without issue.

Cheers,
Wes

 

Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Hello Wes.

I've made also a test scene to see if my settings where wrong, but t didn't look bad. However i made new test, and my normals are showing correctly with the last 1.6 Painter. Anyway, i've send an mail to you to share the file from my Onedrive account. So you can access to the project files. I'm still searching a way to correctly read and setup the textures into Modo with the Sbsar.

I'm Trying to Bake all the texture as a Final Render Output into a different UVSet, to get this mesh more light for viewing them on a smartphone or for LOD object. Do you know if the Team will add a feature to bake the Final composite related to the Viewport camera into a unique texture map ? It could be usefull (maybe just for me).

PS: I know it didn't make sense to work on a a PBR setup and finally make a composite of the rendering to be used just as a diffuse...

Hello Wes.

I've made also a test scene to see if my settings where wrong, but t didn't look bad. However i made new test, and my normals are showing correctly with the last 1.6 Painter. Anyway, i've send an mail to you to share the file from my Onedrive account. So you can access to the project files. I'm still searching a way to correctly read and setup the textures into Modo with the Sbsar.

I'm Trying to Bake all the texture as a Final Render Output into a different UVSet, to get this mesh more light for viewing them on a smartphone or for LOD object. Do you know if the Team will add a feature to bake the Final composite related to the Viewport camera into a unique texture map ? It could be usefull (maybe just for me).

PS: I know it didn't make sense to work on a a PBR setup and finally make a composite of the rendering to be used just as a diffuse...

Hi,

I updated our Substance for MODO docs to include more information about setting up the render in 901. The biggest issue is that you have to setup a way to blend between metal and non-metal materials. You can see the docs at this location.
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=115507208

I've attached a screen shot that shows the setup for the maps. I also created an export preset for Painter that creates the maps needed for 901.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ckwomgelunog1kx/MODO.spexp?dl=0

Place the .spexp file in this location: Users\"user name"\Documents\Substance Painter\shelf\export-presets

Cheers,

Wes
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Thanks a lot Wes. I will try again the Rendering setup when my Animation will be done to update the texture.
Thanks for getting some time to reply.

Hello Wes,

I try this method with metallic as group masking, but my textures are totally washed out by masking. I want to find out what I am doing wrong.

Best Regards,
Dian Mozokov


Hello Wes,

I try this method with metallic as group masking, but my textures are totally washed out by masking. I want to find out what I am doing wrong.

Best Regards,
Dian Mozokov

HI Dian,

Would you be able to share the project? I can take a look.

Cheers,

Wes
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Hi Wes,

Sure, PM sent.

Hi Wes,

Sure, PM sent.

Thanks. I got the PM and will post back.

Cheers,
Wes
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Nice, Wes

I am awaiting your reply :).

Nice, Wes

I am awaiting your reply :).

HI,

I got the scene working. It was pretty close what you have. I changed the Specular to sRGB. It needs to be sRGB as it contains color. I also updated the docs to include a better description of the channel setup.

https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=115507208

I sent you a PM with the link to the updated files.


Cheers,

Wes

Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 07:42:49 pm
Integrations Product Manager / Training
wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com
Twitter: The3DNinja